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Monday, November 8, 1999
Panel: Hispanics are majority but 'Anglos dominate'
By Richard Tijerina
Caller-Times
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| David Wilson, 67, accountant |
Cynthia Bunton, 30, education services director, South Texas Family Planning and Health Corporation |
George Dunson, 56, Director of counseling, Del Mar College |
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| Joe Gonzalez, 42, attendance officer, CCISD |
Diana Jackson, 28, Latchkey after-school program |
Scott Sowder, 36, assistant golf course superintendent |
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| Veronica Viveros, 24, student, A&M-Corpus Christi |
Elias Trevino, 66, retired U.S. Marine Corps |
Katherine Anderson, 22, student, A&M-Corpus Christi |
Problems with racism and prejudice are a reality. And until parents and their children assume the responsibility to end these problems, society won't achieve diversity, said several Corpus Christi residents brought together by the Caller-Times.
"All of us are born not being able to see or know about race," said Joe Gonzalez, an attendance officer for the Corpus Christi Independent School District. "Parents start molding what we think."
Gonzalez was one of nine local residents who met at the Caller-Times over two nights to discuss racial and cultural diversity. The group discussed a range of issues including the controversy over Selena, busing, the criticisms of renaming Agnes Street, interracial relationships, prejudice, racism and discrimination.
Diversity has become a numbers game, some panelists said. Numbers of Hispanics in Nueces County have steadily altered the city's makeup, shifting Census tracts as Hispanics have gradually moved southward in Corpus Christi.
Hispanics make up 54 percent of the population in Nueces County as compared to Anglos' 40 percent. But in 30 years, that number will increase to 57 percent while Anglos will drop to 33 percent. By 2030, 46 percent of Texas will be Hispanic, 36 percent Anglo.
But, panelists said, diversity is more than just the population makeup. They also talked about respect, family, education and possible solutions.
Following are excerpts from their conversations:
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| John Kennedy/Caller-Times |
| OPINIONS VOICED: Veronica Viveros shared her views on race and sexuality issues at a Caller-Times diversity panel in October. |
Anglo domination
KATHERINE ANDERSON: "Unfortunately, even in this area where we have such large numbers of Hispanic population, the Anglo population has a tendency to dominate. I don't know how you even get away from that. They have a tendency to support Anglo-type issues and Anglo performing artists and those kinds of things."
VERONICA VIVEROS: "A lot of Hispanics are getting educated, but not as much as Anglos. So, the more we get educated, the more we're going to have an influence."
DIANA JACKSON: "Katherine, when you're saying 'dominate', what do you mean?"
ANDERSON: "I do think they have just a slight bit more power. I think if we'd had this conversation 20 years ago, there would be a huge difference. But I do think that even in this community, even with as much political power and political base and as well educated as so much of our Hispanic population has become, I still think the Anglos have that slight edge."
JACKSON: "I agree with that. Still, it shouldn't be like that. Things are catching up, but we have a long way to go. Even when Hispanics catch up, it's still going to be hard. It's the same with black people."
VIVEROS: "Because everywhere you go, we'll still be considered minorities."
JACKSON: "Even when we're the majority."
A need for education
ANDERSON: "I think that some of the Hispanics, too, have that language barrier that they must first overcome. A lot of that relies on us as educators, that we need to get better bilingual education programs out there so they can overcome that first barrier. Then they can overcome all the barriers that come after that. I do think that Hispanics or African-Americans do have many more barriers than Anglos, unfortunately. They're less than there was 70 years back, but they're still there."
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| John Kennedy/Caller-Times |
| EMOTIONAL TOPICS: Cynthia Bunton talks about diversity issues in her life in an Oct. 6 panel. |
ELIAS TREVINO: "But why are they there?"
ANDERSON: "I think, No. 1, because Anglos put them there in some instances. I think after so many years of being repressed, even when some of those other barriers start coming down, there's almost a feeling of that oppression. It's still there."
GEORGE DUNSON: "We did a play once and I'd like to quote from it. 'I'm tired of paying dues. I'm ready to collect. With so many years of struggling with your feet upon my neck. Masters, Masters, PhDs. Always not qualified, regardless of degrees. There must be some mistake on the balance sheet I use. According to my figures, I'm overpaid in dues.'
"No matter how much education, no matter what kind of degrees you get, it's still not enough. In Corpus Christi, you've got to look at where the money is. When you start talking about voting, industry, corporate finance, that's where your power base is. It's really difficult."
SCOTT SOWDER: "I don't know if I agree with (Katherine). Look at (Rep.) Solomon Ortiz. He's been a congressman for how many years? Or (State Sen. Carlos) Truan? Not to mention all the Hispanic businesses here. I think there's more Hispanic businesses than there are Anglo businesses in this town."
JACKSON: "Well, there should be. There's more Hispanics here."
SOWDER: "Maybe not, though. Maybe it could be all the Anglos who own businesses and all the Hispanics are working for them."
Speaking Spanish and education
TREVINO: "I was in the Marine Corps. Two (of my children) were born on the West Coast, one was born in North Carolina and the other was born in Hawaii and the other one was born here. I had three boys and two girls. I knew Spanish, but I never said anything to my kids like, 'You've got to learn Spanish.' And now, I realize that it was kind of a mistake. Now I have grandchildren. I'm going to have to work on them.
"I'm from the Valley. I was born and raised in Mercedes. I went through a lot of experiences there, as far as discrimination is concerned. We can talk, but discrimination is here to stay. There is no way that's going to change."
ANDERSON: "I don't think we can wipe it out completely, but I do think that it's changing more. It is going to get better."
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| John Kennedy/Caller-Times |
| CONSIDERING COMMENTS: Katherine Anderson (left) listens to George Dunson during the panel discussion. |
TREVINO: "But we need to educate people. We need a lot of education so they can understand each other. That was the biggest problem for the Mexican people coming over here to work. That's why a lot of people got mistreated. I hope we can make a better deal for this world."
Voting along ethnic lines
SOWDER: "My friends don't vote. They won't vote. They refuse to vote. I ask them why and they say, 'What for? Why should I vote?' I tell them if you get 100 of your friends to vote and 100 of their friends to vote, you can go and pick some Hispanic off the street and if all of you get together, you'll win against any white person or any black person in town. It's just numbers."
ANDERSON: "But everyone assumes they would vote along those lines. I don't necessarily vote for the white guy. For one thing, I'm a Democrat and the white guy isn't always on the Democratic ticket. I'd like to think I vote for the most qualified person, whether they're African-American, Hispanic or white. But I do think some of that goes on. The president of the student body at Texas A&M-Corpus Christi is Hispanic and three of my friends who are bilingual (education) majors said to him, 'Oh, we voted for you. You were the Hispanic guy on the ticket. We don't know who you are, but we voted for you.' But I don't think everyone votes straight along race lines."
TREVINO: "I vote for whomever I want to vote for - mostly Hispanic - but I also look at the qualifications of the others running, and if I don't like those qualifications, I'll vote for the Hispanic."
Reactions to busing, language
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Channel 6 News report
A new school is being built in the West Oso Independent School District. In a Channel 6 News special report at 10 p.m. tonight, find out how important race relations are at the old school and how some plan to carry that to the new facility.
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SOWDER: "I remember my parents freaked out when they started busing. My parents did not like it. My sister got bused to Martin Junior High when I went to Tom Browne. A bunch of those kids came over from Martin and that was culture shock. They were different. They were humans and they were kids, but they were different. It took us a couple of years, but . . . some of those people are still my friends."
TREVINO: "What had happened if that had not taken place? You would not have had that experience."
SOWDER: "Right. It didn't bother me. It bothered my parents."
TREVINO: "The reason for the busing was to send low-income Mexican-Americans and colored people to the other schools because they thought they would be taught better. But yet, they were being taken from their own environments to other environments in other schools. I don't think that thing worked."
DUNSON: "I want to say one thing. The term 'colored' would be offensive today because of the connotation."
TREVINO: "What did I say?"
DUNSON: "You said 'colored.' "
TREVINO: "I didn't know I said that."
DUNSON: "It didn't offend me, but some people would be offended. People say, 'What do you want me to call you? You want me to call you African-American? You want me to call you black? Are you a Negro? What do you want me to call you?' Well, just call me George Dunson. I just pointed that out because that stood out. But you see, that's the generation you grew up in."
WILSON: "In that generation, it was polite."
DUNSON: "It was. And I accept that as being polite."
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"Neighbors: Worlds Apart"
A Caller-Times project examining racial and ethnic diversity in Corpus Christi. KRIS-TV, Channel 6 also will broadcast reports this week dealing with diversity issues.
Coming Tomorrow:
Local residents describe their race-related experiences. Plus, your answers to the Sound Off question: "What incidents have had an effect on your attitude about race relations?"
 "When I was going to school at Del Mar, I heard that someone had written graffiti in the bathroom. They wrote 'Spics,' but I had never heard that term. I had to ask some friends what it was. I didn't know anyone talked about Hispanics like that. It still bothers me."
- Jessica Luna, 22, office manager
 "While at a local club, a (white) lady asked me to dance. ... After a minute or two on the floor, she complimented my dancing. 'You dance good for a black boy,' she said. I thought, 'As a naval officer and grown African American man, I should not be referred to as a black boy.'" However, I was only slightly put off by the comment, so I took the opportunity to correct her. I leaned forward and calmly said, 'Man. Black man.' Immediately, she was apologetic."
- Alden Williams, 43, Naval aviator
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Issues involving sexuality
ANDERSON: "When you think of diversity, the first thing that comes to mind is race. But to me, diversity encompasses so much more: religion, sexual preference, single-mom issues, whether you're male or female. Yes, there are some race issues, but there are others, too, that have to be included. There are so many other ways we are diverse. Race is a big issue, but look at gays, lesbians and bisexuals and see how far they have to go."
SOWDER: "I took my daughter to a parade, and we sat down on Leopard Street and watched it. On the way home, we were driving down Santa Fe, and there was another float all by itself - one for gays and lesbians. My daughter said, 'What's that float for?' I didn't know what to say. How do I explain that to a 4-year-old? Do I want to explain that to a 4-year-old?
"The other night, she was watching something about the trial in the dragging death in Jasper and once again, I didn't know what to say. How do I explain that kind of cruelty to a 4-year-old? When I watch CNN, I see all the bad things happening around the country, but I don't see that here."
CYNTHIA BUNTON: "I think there are some sexual orientation issues. I think there are hidden prejudices that we tend to pretend they don't exist . . . I hear a lot of people say, 'I don't have a problem with gays and lesbians, as long as they stay away from me!' The bottom line is, they're people, too."
ANDERSON: "And they're part of the community. They're regular, normal people. I have lots of gay and lesbian friends. And a lot of them, you look at them and wouldn't say, 'That's a gay man' or 'That's a lesbian woman.' I just cannot believe the stereotypes that are out there about gays and lesbians. We may have come so far as far as race goes and so far as far as religion goes, but still, when it comes to sexual preferences, it is just outrageous the way people act."
History of race in city
DAVID WILSON: "I feel like we have come a long way in Corpus Christi. I remember I had a squadron mate in Japan when I was in the Navy. He was black and a naval officer assigned to Corpus Christi. This was in the late 1950s or early 1960s. He was a flight instructor here. He looked around for housing for his family and could not find anything suitable for his family. So, he chose to have his family continue to live in Chicago until his tour of duty was over here. That's wrong. I don't think that situation would happen now.''
BUNTON: "I can remember when I was a little girl and I had been sick for four or five days. My grandmother had tried every home remedy she could think of, every leaf, every tree. Finally, she took me to the doctor. And she said, 'Take her to Hector.' So, I went to Dr. Garcia.
"He walked in, shook something up, put it in a needle, shot me up and said, 'Take her home and call me in three hours.' In three hours, I was outside playing with my sisters. And it was then that I realized that help comes from all kinds of people. That's why everything was named after that man.
"I think of the impact he had in my life. Then I think of Dr. Elliot Grant. He was my pastor when he was a father figure to everyone in our church, in my neighborhood. If you had an issue, if you had something that couldn't be done, he and his wife were there to offer their support. That, to me, at a young age let me know that it was OK to be helped, that it was OK for someone out of your race to help you."
DUNSON: "Most of the minorities who are doers in this community and have high positions, really, are not from here. If they want to make something of themselves, they don't stay. They don't come back. There aren't really any jobs here for them. I hear it every day: 'I want my child to get a good education, but they have to leave. I don't want them to come back to Corpus Christi because there really aren't any jobs for them.' "
Interracial relationships
WILSON: "We've come a long way. If you look in the Living Section in the Sunday paper, there are many marriages between people of different ethnicities and race. So, I think that's kind of proof that we have come a long way."
JACKSON: "I was married to a black guy for about a year and a half . . . To the younger people, it wasn't such a big deal. But to the old people, it was definitely a big deal. There were a lot of problems that our marriage went through because of the interracial thing. It was more like looks - whispers. I never knew what they said. I probably wouldn't want to know what they said. I guess with Hispanics and whites being married, they probably wouldn't say as much."
ANDERSON: "I've just gotten out of an 8-year relationship with a Hispanic man that I have a child with and for the most part, yes, I would say people are very open to that. But I would occasionally get some comments, particularly after we had a child together - never anything to my face. But I found, too, that it was mostly from Hispanics, usually older Hispanics. But some Anglos, too.
"If my son came to me and he said he was gay and he brought his black boyfriend, I'd say all right."
SOWDER: "That would be a double whammy. But I don't care. I really don't."
JOE GONZALEZ: "Scott, I don't believe that."
SOWDER: "Well, it is going to bother me because I know how tough it's going to be for them. He's going to be the father of my grandchildren and hopefully, I have enough kindness in my heart that I'll be able to like the guy. But when I'm sitting there eating and I have my cold Budweiser and he walks through the door, I'm gonna jump a little bit, because it's just different. You can't get by it.
"A friend of mine is Hispanic and he tells me, 'Bad enough if my daughter marries a white guy and he can't speak Spanish. But God, she'd better not marry a black guy.' And he's told me that a hundred times. But I don't know. I would be more worried about our family reunions. All those good ol' boys will be there. They'd step out of the car and my daughter would be with a black guy, I can just imagine. My uncles would freak out. But if she's going to do that, she's going to do that. I have no control over that. I've already started thinking that someday, she's going to do something I don't like."
Passing it on
SOWDER: "When I was growing up, my dad would say stuff like, 'Oh, that Mexican.' I wouldn't do that to my kid. I'm hoping that it will get watered down until eventually, it just won't matter. It's so sad that we can send men to the moon, that we can build space shuttles, we can do all this stuff, but we still can't get over the colors of our skin."
GONZALEZ: "I have a 12-year-old and a 16-year-old, and as hard as I've tried not to teach either one of them racism, I've blown it many times by a single comment I've made. And I could have worked a year to be careful, but when I make one comment, I blow it. It's hard. All of us are born not being able to see or know about race. You put any baby in a playpen and they'll play with anyone, regardless of race. Parents start molding what we think."
SOWDER: "Regardless of what my faults are on all these subjects, I don't want to teach my kids that because I've seen how much they hurt."
Controversy over Agnes Street
GONZALEZ: "Didn't discrimination rear its head with the Cesar Chavez sign?"
WILSON: "But who raised it?"
GONZALEZ: "Well, LULAC didn't do a very good job of presenting it."
WILSON: "But as I understand it, it was the Hispanic businessmen who were opposed to it along Agnes Street."
SOWDER: "That street's been Agnes Street for a long time. Pick another street. That's Agnes Street. To me, it's always been Agnes Street. I don't know why it was named Agnes Street."
GONZALEZ: "But when it's time to name a street, or when it's time to name a school, or when it's time to name a building if it's not a school, some of this discrimination rears its head."
ANDERSON: "I don't know about that."
GONZALEZ: "Look at the elementary school for Mireles. It took Senator Truan and a lot of the Hispanic community leaders to sell the idea of naming the school after Jovita and Edward Mireles."
WILSON: "Is there a street named Dr. Hector Garcia Street? I can see that a lot sooner than Cesar Chavez. He was not a local person. He was involved with migrant workers in California. He doesn't have a direct connection here."
GONZALEZ: "He was for the labor movement. There was a comment in the Caller-Times in an editorial: People think that Cesar was just for Hispanics. He was for the labor movement, black, white, Hispanic, whatever. It made no difference. He fought for the rights of labor people, regardless of their race."
JACKSON: "What did he do?"
GONZALEZ: "He fought for the labor rights, predominantly farm people, wages and everything else. They didn't have to be Hispanic, yet that's how history is portraying him. It could have been a German, it could have been a black working in the fields, it made no difference. He was going to fight for their labor rights. But this thing up here was a fiasco, if you ask me. There are many ways you can immortalize somebody. But when it's time to name a building, you're going to get into an uproar about race.
"There's no problem with naming a building after any Head, if he's a Head. And yet if there was a Hispanic leader or a black leader, there's a problem. And I sound racist saying that, I realize that."
SOWDER: "No, that's true."
WILSON: "Well, what about the way they finally settled it, having a sign saying it was a memorial highway?"
GONZALEZ: "That's a Band-Aid. That's hogwash. They should have just said, 'No.' "
JACKSON: "I don't know what he did for me."
SOWDER: "You're saying if someone says, 'OK, if we have a street or we have a building, and this Hispanic was a good person,' and that every time this happens, all this crap comes up. Why do we have to name it after that? Why does that have to be a problem?"
GONZALEZ: "Look at Selena. My God, they were going to name a school after her in West Oso, after her father took her out of the school. Ask a lot of Hispanics. There was a big fight there. Why are you trying to name a school - and I was one of them - after someone who dropped out? I'm sorry. She did. Her career was first. Did she do something for the Hispanics? Yes. She came back to the schools and did a lot of wonderful things for the Hispanics. But when it was time to name the auditorium after her, whew, it was a fight."
TREVINO: "What did Cesar Chavez actually accomplish? I know he put restrooms out in the fields. I don't know anything else that he did that was so big."
GONZALEZ: "Higher wages, more benefits . . . There was pesticide in the fields. He addressed all those issues that endangered human life."
TREVINO: "I was raised in a cotton field down in the Valley, I was born in a chicken coop, and I'm still alive."
Problem of perceptions
JACKSON: "I went to (a store) in Houston in the Sugarland area, and I basically got accused of shoplifting without them coming out and saying it. The alarm was set off, and me and my nephew just bought $200 worth of stuff because he loves computers. They searched through the bags because the alarm was going off, and there were some other kids who had just walked out of the store before us, but it didn't matter. They didn't stop them. They were white. We were Hispanic."
SOWDER: "If I stayed in my house and watched CNN or the 'Cops' show or whatever, and never left the house, I would think, 'God, these black people are horrible. They're a bunch of convicts on drugs.'
WILSON: "Back in the mid 1970s, there were some riots on some aircraft carriers and there was a big push throughout the Armed Forces for sensitivity training. It was very much like what we're doing here. It had a good effect on the military. We did get together, we talked things out and we came to know how each other was feeling. We're doing the same thing here. Maybe we ought to do more of the same thing throughout the community."
Educating youths
GONZALEZ: "We've got kids transferring from schools simply because of the ethnic breakdown. We've got kids that are transferring out of Carroll and coming to Moody because they'd rather be with more Hispanics. We've got kids transferring out of Moody because they're tired of the 'I'm Mexican, I'm not going to go anywhere' syndrome. I'm going to go to a school that's going to educate me better, so I'm going to go to King or Carroll' - simply on the basis of 'If that's a white school, I'm going to get better educated' even though that's not what it's about. Your education depends on how hard you want to hit the books."
DUNSON: "It goes back to the money. You look at blacks and Hispanics. What kind of positions do they have here? I'm talking about the majority of them. They're still custodians, they're still janitors, they still come home and they're tired. They're trying to do the best for their kids."
GONZALEZ: "But even in our schools, we teach competition. It's us vs. them. If this is an all Hispanic school and that's an all white school, it's us vs. them. I don't care if it's in a One-Act Play or on the gridiron. It's still taught. And it goes back to a child having good values so he knows how to balance."
Alike in our differences
ANDERSON: "In the end, we're all more alike than we're all different. When you're able to see that and able to appreciate differences at the same time, that's where harmony really comes in."
BUNTON: "I think we're seeing less and less of (prejudice) now. Even my parents didn't have a lot of the association or friendships with other (ethnicities). Because of the busing that took place between Coles and Frazier, it did away with a lot of the 'Those black kids this' or 'Those Hispanic kids that.' Now, we don't see that as much and you see it less with the generation of today . . . I think our children will have less of it because of the acceptance. I don't know if it will all go away because we are all different, whether your hair color's different, your eye color's different, your nail color's different. The same person who does your nails does my nails, but you wear green polish and I wear pink. Color. It's there. It's not something we can separate ourselves from, but I think we've become desensitized to it."
JACKSON: "It's like we're the same, but we're different."
BUNTON: "Exactly."
SOWDER: "We're so different that we can't accept that one guy likes tortillas and one guy likes white bread, or one guy likes rock music and I'm judging this guy, or they're judging me, because I like country music. I don't think you're ever going to change it. We can sit around and talk about it forever, but I really don't think that we can ever really accept each other."
Assistant Metro Editor Richard Tijerina can be reached at 886-3611 or by e-mail at tijerinar@caller.com
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